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Kimunya: The
President will not have powers to dish out plots
DAILY NATION
Publication Date: 11/3/2005
Lands and Housing minister Amos
Kimunya, a Yes vote advocate, says that the Government will not
have the power to interfere with trust land.
Question: Which major land
reforms would convince Kenyans to vote for the proposed
Constitution?
Mr Amos Kimunya
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Mr Amos
Kimunya: Chapter
Seven has maintained the essence and the spirit of the Bomas
Draft. It captures the negotiated position on the
necessary reforms in our land management system to ensure
land is used for the benefit of every Kenyan. The reforms
are the product of the work that came from the past land
commission of inquiries; the Njonjo and Ndung'u commissions,
as well as the (Prof Yash Pal) Commission on constitutional
review.
Authority is to be vested in
the National Land Authority (NLA) and district land
authority. To avoid creating unnecessary tension between the
State and communities, compulsory acquisition of community
land shall only be exercisable after due consultation with
and approval of the District Land Authority (DLA) where the
land is situated. |
The NLA aims to develop guidelines
and clear standards for adoption by district as well as other land
planning authorities. Such guidelines will incorporate national
policies relating to sustainable use of land and environmental
preservation and will take into account local and community values
on land use and sound environmental management.
The sanctity of title will now be
tied to the legitimacy of the process or procedure used in its
acquisition. Titles will be honoured and protected only where they
have been acquired in accordance with the laws and procedures
prevailing at the time of their acquisition.
Q: Dr Godana argues that the
proposed Constitution is badly drafted as regards land issues. He
cites Article 86 (1) (g) and the paragraph that follows, arguing
somebody might use these provisions to carry out selective
witch-hunting. What would you say?
Mr Kimunya: That argument is
self defeatist. Dr Godana will be casting aspersions on the
ability of Parliament to make decisions on behalf of the people. I
don't see any witch-hunting. Parliament, but not one person, shall
determine when investigations should commence. What Dr Godana has
cited as an example of bad drafting viz Article 86 (1) (g) and 86
(2) are direct replicas of the provisions in Article 86 (1) (g)
and 86 (2) of the so called Bomas Draft of the proposed
constitution.
Q: In your view, how far back
should we go in reviewing alleged land injustices?
Mr Kimunya: Obviously we
can't rewrite the history of this country. I would like to see a
clear break between historical and independence. It should be
practical in solving injustices after independence.
Q: Critics argue the National
Land Commission will create instability as it could be used by the
Government to take over communal land. What is your opinion?
Mr Kimunya: That is
obviously misinformation. Articles 80 (4) and 81 (4) states that
community land shall not be disposed or used against the wishes of
the communities. Communal land will be under district governments.
Just like today, trust land is under county councils. There is no
departure in terms of responsibilities now and in future. The
whole idea of a NLC is to demystify management of land and to
remove it from one person in the name of the President.
Q: How will the Government help
alleviate poverty through the proposed land and housing funds?
Mr Kimunya: The Government
would be constitutionally obligated to set up funds, like the
Constituency Development Fund, to provide the public with soft
loans.
Q: Are there no other ways of
determining the minimum land holding acreage in arable areas other
than vesting that power in Parliament?
Mr Kimunya: Parliament, in
consultation with the district government, will provide enabling
legislative framework for people to sit down with their leaders to
determine subdivision of land in their areas. The minimum land
holding acreage, might not be the same, say, in Maasailand or
Kuria, Kisii or Kiambu districts.
Q: What was the rationale behind
banning the sub-division of land below 2.5 acres? Were you not
risking being seen as insensitive to the plight of peasant
farmers?
Mr Kimunya: We
were not being insensitive. Our move was premised on the current
crisis (on food shortage) we are facing in the country. It was a
stop-gap measure to allow us to work out what was happening in
different zones. Our aim was to discourage poor people from
selling the little land they have and leave their families with
nothing.
Q: Dr Godana says you lifted the
ban after the Government realised that was not a noble policy.
What is your reaction?
Mr Kimunya: The policy was
very noble. But it was politicised to tell people their land would
be taken away from them.
Q: The proposed Constitution
seeks to eliminate discrimination against either men or women in
land ownership. Yet it encourages that land disputes be referred
to subordinate courts, some which are founded on the very customs
that have unjustly disinherited women for generations. Is there
hope things will be different now?
Mr Kimunya: It was widely
accepted at Bomas that women's right to land ought to be enshrined
in the Constitution. The importance of solving land disputes at
the local level is to help ensure even the poor, who cannot afford
services of smart advocates, will not be denied justice simply
because they cannot make it to the formal courts. More than 75 per
cent of cases in courts are land-related. Legal recognition of
customary courts will help decongest the formal courts. No one has
complained about the current Land Disputes Tribunals and they have
been performing.
Q: What is your message to the
No or Orange team, regarding land issues?
Mr Kimunya: Let us not
politicise land issues. The talk against issues in the land
chapter, is more out of mischief, misinformation and
misinterpretation. Let's give Kenyans what they need.
Q: Dr Godana dismisses as cheap
propaganda the argument advanced by the Yes or Banana team that
women will be economically empowered as they may inherit family
land. Comment.
Mr Kimunya: There is no
propaganda here. This is a fact. Article 78 (1) says land is
Kenya's primary resource and the basis of livelihood for the
people. It goes without saying that whoever has or controls land
is an economically empowered person. What does land ownership
entail in Kenya if not a form of economic empowerment? Where else
would one have a natural entitlement to land than from one's own
family? Daughters are as much children as sons so why should a son
benefit from growing, say, coffee or tea on family land while a
daughter cannot?
Q: The Government has since
denied that the issuance of title deeds and plans to resettle
those evicted from forest lands is a campaign gimmick. Why the
hurry now to carry out the exercise?
Mr Kimunya: We are not in
any hurry. We are not going to accelerate the exercise because of
the referendum. We are still working at our pace. Issuance of
titles with continue even after November 21. It is our societal
and moral obligation to protect the poor. The exercise to issue
title deeds to the Ogiek community started in 2003. There was no
referendum in sight.
Q: How would the government
handle a situation where other communities and victims of tribal
clashes countrywide start demanding such treatment?
Mr Kimunya: Every Kenyan is
within our programmes. We have different programmes for different
communities. The issue of victims of tribal clashes goes beyond
land. There is compensation, resettlement and healing of
animosities between neighbours. That is a comprehensive programme
we are working on jointly with the Office of the President.
Q: What is your message to the
No or Orange team, regarding land issues?
Mr Kimunya: Let us not
politicise land issues. The talk against issues in the land
chapter, is more out of mischief, misinformation and
misinterpretation. Let's give Kenyans what they need.
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